Here’s the Hannah Yeoh interview I promised. It summarizes some assumptions I made about making a difference in Malaysia:
- What used to work before March 8, 2008 may no longer work now
- If you want to see change happen, you need to work the issues through the appropriate systems and your representatives
- Your comments on your state or federal representative’s blog counts as influence at the assembly
- If you are a member of the “informed public”, you need to take the lead
- Failure to do this may mean we revert to back cowboy state a la pre-March 8
Some things you can do to make a difference:
- Regularly read blogs of your representatives (e.g. Hannah Yeoh, Lau Weng San, Tony Pua), and leave constructive comments and suggestions
- Find out how to lodge complaints, how to get things done
- Look for similar minded people, and form a group or a committee
- Tell your friends
- and of course, vote
Here’s the Interview Transcript,
My Interview with Yang Berhormat Hannah Yeoh Tseow Suan
Boon: Based on your perspective, what has changed after the March 8 elections?
Hannah: I think first of all the reason for that change was because people wanted a clean government. I think people got sick of corruption. The main gist of all the political rallies that you saw was the fact that they highlighted about corruption and how taxpayers money was being used for unnecessary projects and for the personal benefit of certain politicians.
After March 8, the thing that has changed is that it has restored back some hope in people, which shows that we are towards a transparent government and the people voted in, at least for my office. We strive for that in everything that we do.
So the first thing that we did which was unheard of before this was that we published our campaign accounts online immediately after March 8. You don’t see that often.
So that change is basically that spark of hope in people that shows how we have a clean government, and people have that expectation of us. So even that big hoo-ha about councilors – Why? Because people wanted to see the transparent manner of selection.
So the expectation is there already, which was never there before. Before, people would just close their eyes. Now, you see every policy being questioned, and you see a greater transparency.
Boon: And that also speaks about the way that people react, and that they’re more active now in the community and in voicing out their opinions?
Hannah: Yes. You see, previously people accepted it as the normal way of life. But now, people look in everything that you do people will say, “what about transparent government?”. People are starting to expect that, which is good for a developing nation like ours. We should be. I saw that as the biggest change.
Boon: So what that means to me as a citizen is that people are starting to react differently. They are not just talking about it, but they are coming out and approaching you about issues and wanting those issues to be solved.
Hannah: Yes. People are openly criticizing corruption, as opposed to before where people accepted it as norm in Malaysia. I think that’s the biggest difference.
Boon: How do you think people perceive you and your work?
Hannah: Everybody expected us to be clean, because that’s what we promised. People have high expectations of me, they expect me to solve problems in the first hundred days, which was not possible because we didn’t have a proper handover. I didn’t have the privilege of the former ADUN saying “hey look, these are all the problems we’ve been looking at”.
So when people came, they flooded my office in the beginning. All kinds of problems. All kinds of documents. And our documents just piled up. All this took time for us to study, to understand the matter.
So as far as the Subang Jaya people are concerned, I know that people perceive me as hardworking. They know I’m trying my best to solve the problem, even though you don’t see some results now.
Does that answer your question?
Boon: I guess I’m curious to know what the perception of the general public is because that helps me to understand their position as citizens.
Hannah: I don’t think I’m the right person to say how they perceive me but a good place to look at would be on my blog, where I have enabled comments. So there are people who disagree with me, but the majority of people – they think that it’s a good job done so far. So I think that would be a better gauge.
Boon: What is the best way that people can take action in order to see change happen, in practical ways?
Hannah: I think that in practical ways, people must first learn to do things on their own first and not to rely everything upon the ADUN. So when I say people must learn to do that, reason being, we have people who have complaints about MPSJ but they refuse to lodge a complaint with MPSJ and they expect me to do it.
So this is the thing that we have to teach them. Look, your job is to lodge a complaint. The system is there for you to lodge a complaint. Now when that system fails you, when it’s not acted upon, then you tell me, because my job is to come and improve the system. But not to lodge a complaint for you.
So it takes a lot of re-educating, a re-education of the people. If everybody is willing to lodge the complaint themselves first, if they’re willing to play their role first, then that would solve 50% of the problems in our office.
The bulk of people who walk in on Thursday night – a lot of them do not know where to go when they have a problem.
Fifty percent, at least.
They come in with a personal loan matter. They cannot service their loan with a bank, and they expect me…
Boon: (interjects) Now is actually part of the government’s role to help…?
Hannah: (interjects) No – it has never been. But you see, that’s the problem. I don’t think they understand the role of the state assemblyman. So when they read the newspaper, they see some other politician helping every person with a problem, they expect Hannah Yeoh to be the same. And if you cannot perform, then you are worse than that other politician, because this politician is willing to do that. But not every politician is a like that. And my role is not to be one. The bulk of complaints are things like that.
Boon: So how do people know exactly what your jurisdiction is?
Hannah: We teach them when they come in here. We don’t just turn them away. We actually tell them, “for this issue, you’ve got to lodge a complaint with MPSJ”. We give them the hotline number. We teach them. Now if that’s not acted upon, then you call us again.
For people with personal loan matters and all this, we tell them “you need independent legal advice”. People come to me just because I have a law degree. They don’t understand that I’m not in the best position to give them legal advice because I’m not acting for them. So we will channel them to legal aid.
Boon: What about the general public, who don’t actually know how approach the matter?
Hannah: They email. I have received 3040 emails so far, since March. Average, I get about 60 per day. And I have to spend at least 3 to 4 hours just looking at them. Some emails, Edward Ling will help me, because I cannot reply to all.
So the bulk of our time is not just sitting in the office. We have to meet the people on Thursday night, and from Monday to Friday as well. We have to attend to emails. We have a hotline, which we have to attend to. And on top of that we have to go site visits. We have to meet different people. We have give press interviews and all that. So there’s a lot of things to be done.
We are at least now learning to prioritise. Because after going through a series of problems, all the different complaints, we roughly know how to tackle certain problems. And we have to make a stand. If there are certain things we cannot do, we will tell them we cannot help you.
Boon: This leads me back to my conversation with Edward on how these things could be solved with better documentation.
Hannah: We do have that. We actually have that on our website. FAQs and all that. And it’s on Edward Ling’s blog and on my blog as well.
The people who already well-informed may know that they can lodge a complaint with MPSJ online. Some of these people know. Because we have the info if you know how to go online. The problem with these people who walk in is that they don’t have an internet access. So even if I post on my blog, they don’t read it.
Boon: When I spoke to Edward over the phone, he encouraged me to join the party and voice my concerns and work my issues through the party machinery. It was obvious to me through his explanation that there’s a lack of talent, a great need of people who are capable to be able to provide help through the party itself. How much work is going on in that area, and how DAP (or the government in general) is attracting the current talent pool?
Hannah: At the state level, the government has been setting up task forces – different committees. Experts come in. For example, to deal with land issues and all that. So they have started that.
But for young people to contribute, I think many people can go through the respective ADUN’s offices and branches. For us, when people come in usually people express via email or when they walk in that they want to help out. So we have a folder. A volunteer’s folder.
When we have different projects where we need different talents, we will call up all these people and ask them what area they want to help in.
Boon: But those are people who already have a vested interest in the work. The initiative is on the volunteer’s themselves, right? Do you actually go out to look for volunteers? With people I know, most of them don’t know that there’s an opportunity to serve, either outside the government or with the government.
Hannah: If you have any suggestions, I think you can write them down and give it to me. I will look through it and raise it up to the Excos at the state level. But for now I can only speak of the effort we have taken in the office to draw volunteers and to create awareness.
Boon: But I think you do have quite a long list of volunteers.
Hannah: Yes, but there’s still a lot of work.
Boon: Would you enlist them as DAP members?
Hannah: No, some of our volunteers are not DAP members. Some people help me because they’re my friends. It also depends on the person’s passion. Some people want to just serve the community. Some people fight for justice. So it depends on the passion when they come to me, I will know from the way they talk, I’ll know what they’re passionate about and it’s best if they’re passionate about certain things then they can take up those respective jobs.
Boon: What kinds of jobs are there available?
Hannah: In my office I have one volunteer who is keying in all the complainants’ problems into our server. So that is quite time consuming.
Boon: And that system is not part of the government’s central one?
Hannah: No, it’s our own office system.
Boon: So everything is running isolated?
Hannah: Yes, you cannot have a government system now because it was non-existant previously. Some ADUNs don’t even have service centres. That’s why it’s hard for anyone to come up with a set of roles of the state assemblymen. Because you get other people who really, for votes, will do anything to service people.
Boon: That’s a gray area. There’s no clear definition of what the state assemblyman’s role is?
Hannah: The clearest thing would be to voice the concerns of Subang Jaya people – to be the voice of the Subang Jaya people at the state assembly. That’s the main role of a state assemblyman. And on top of that to know the problems – to be able to become a voice, you have to have a service centre where you hear the complaints, then you can absorb that and become a voice.
Boon: How effective is that role and how much authority is given to the state assemblyman at the state assembly in executing that responsibility?
Hannah: Let me explain the process. In the state assembly we submit our questions and they will go through the process whereby all the different departments and different agencies including the town councils (MPSJ) will have to go and find all the answers and disclose them at the state assembly.
There is a voting system if anybody brings a motion then you will have to go for the number of votes at the assembly.
Anothing thing is the access to privileged information. Any ordinary person who would ask for a list of contracts given out by MPSJ, you probably will never get it. But because of the state assembly, the powers that we have to ask questions and to summon the departments to provide us with the answers – that is one avenue for me to provide information that people want to see.
Boon: Who regulates this authority?
Hannah: We have the speaker of the house and the Dewan Undangan Negeri’s office. Then you have all the questions, which are oral and written. Oral questions – only a few will be asked because there’s not enough time. But the rest of the questions they cannot answer orally they will have to provide you answers in writing.
When you highlight a problem concerning the people of Subang Jaya in the state assembly, you have immunity. Outside here, if I want to allege that another state assembly is actually corrupt, I’m not able to do that. I may face a defamation suit. But in the state assembly, I’m free to do that.
Boon: So the law actually protects you from that.
Hannah: Yes. So we would say to MPSJ “please look into the matter, you tell the state to look into the matter.” One of the things I did at the state assembly was to raise the concern of ‘no legislation’ or no laws governing the gated and guarded community, which is a real problem in Subang Jaya.
When I brought that up, everybody in Selangor became aware of the problem. And I know the state is looking into this already, they are drawing up papers and all that.
Boon: And when you mention the state, who does it mean?
Hannah: The Executive Councilors. The ten Excos.
Boon: This is a bit of a re-education for me. I tended to believe that even if there is a system or a law governing the system, there are a lot of gray areas that are bypassed for reasons that I won’t mention. Of course people who have voted for change are curious to know at what point does the gray area become black and white. Even my wife was asking what checks and balances are there in place.
Hannah: Previously, nobody knows what happens in the state assembly. Previously you had only two opposition members out of 56. Then one got suspended, then there was left only one.
Now, because in the name of transparency our speaker managed to air the entire proceedings online.
Boon: Is that illegal?
Hannah: It is legal. We are the first to lead, in Selangor. You can view the entire proceedings live online. So people now, a Subang Jaya person, will be able to sit down and watch and they will know all the problems in Selangor. Because they will hear the speeches of other state assemblymen. So that’s a great chance.
Boon: What’s the percentage like in terms of the party representation in the state of Selangor?
Hannah: Now we have 36 from Pakatan Rakyat, and 20 from Barisan Nasional. That is a good balance because you have a strong opposition as well, as opposed to last time (only one or two).
Boon: So this makes it more effective for the people to voice out their concerns through their representatives.
Hannah: Yes. And for the people to also hear the replies to some of the answers, like some of the land deals that were exposed from the questions. So people are aware of it now.
Boon: Like the one in USJ6?
Hannah: Oh that one is not the kind of land deal that we found out at the state assembly. These things are happening because we don’t have a local plan. It’s still at draft stage now. As a result, we always have to go for public hearing and everybody is speculating the status of the land. But I think that when the local plan is in place, then everybody will know for certain – “this land is for this purpose”. You won’t have to guess anymore.
But now, the moment a person puts up a hoarding, everyone will jump because they think that there’s a big development that’s going up in this place. But maybe the owner of the land just wants to put hoarding so that nobody can dump rubbish.
Boon: I think that answers in general the effectiveness of the change that has been put in place after March 8. It gives me a bit more reason to convince people that they should not sit on their sofas. If they have an issue that they’re not comfortable with, to actually work those issues through their representatives. Which is my point exactly. And that just because you voted for the opposition or for change in the last election does not mean that things are as it used to be. My concern is that people expect the government to do all the work but they cannot clearly articulate what that role is. What are you thoughts about the thinking that “I paid taxes so the government should do this, like clean up the road”?
Hannah: I think it’s true that people pay assessment fees, taxes and they expect service in return. But very sad to say the mindset of Malaysians today are still very third class, some people. They pay taxes and assessment, but they still litter when they drive. Because their mindset is “look, somebody’s going to clean this up”. Which is wrong. It takes two hands to clap, to take Malaysia forward.
The reason why America or Singapore are developed nations are because the people, the mindsets change.
Boon: But at the same time there is proper enforcement in place to combat that mentality. For example, if I throw chewing gum in Singapore and there’s a policeman there, he’s going to come up to me. There’s an enforcement that encourages the formation of that mentality. So the Singapore government is proactively working to change the mindset of the public. Whereas here we’re a bit like a cowboy town where if I cut someone’s lane while driving, nobody’s going to shout at me, apart from the guy behind me. It’s a chicken and egg situation.
Hannah: I think the informed society can take the lead. People in Subang Jaya – there should be no reason why, if you’re driving, why they should litter. I’ve seen that – Mercedes drivers wind down and {signals a throw}. I find that unbelievable.
Boon: Based on your experience in the past few months, and the amount of change that you have seen both as well as been in charge of – you have a general perception of how things will arrive at a certain situation. My question is about the re-education of the public. How long do you forsee that people will start to really wake up and have a change in place?
Hannah: To be honest, I really do not know. I was convinced during the election that many people want to change. But at the same time, we didn’t win all the votes. There were still one third of people who didn’t want change. I honestly do not know – like I said, after people voted me in then they find out when they walk in that there’s certain things that I won’t compromise, so some people might not like it.
A lot of Malaysians, you’ll be surprised – they are willing to live with corruption. Why? Because as long as they have the money, they can break the law, they can pay their way through it.
To gauge, I think the next election will be a good test. Because now the people have started to taste the other side of the coin. They are not tasting the Pakatan Rakyat’s rule in this place. So they will be able to decide whether this is the kind of government they want or not. Only in the next election will we know. If you see a state like Kelantan, they have been happy with PAS for a long time.
Boon: You’re saying you have no clear observation of whether that mentality has changed or not – like there’s nobody having a repeat entrance saying things like, “actually you’re right to say I should come and get a personal loan from you”. You don’t have people coming back like that, right?
Hannah: No. But, again, based on the comments I’ve received on my blog so far, I’m quite happy that the majority of the people, they agree with me – that these are not the things an ADUN should do (giving a personal loan to a person).
This should not be my job. I cannot afford it anyway to give personal loan to everybody. So the majority of people are with us. But these are people behind the scenes. You do not know, when the actual time comes, that’s why I say the next election will be a good gauge.
Boon: Obviously all of this is a work in progress. I want people to have the opportunity to see how things have changed and how much they can affect the government within their own means. This has been good. I really thank you for the opportunity.
Hannah: No problem. Anytime.
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