Malaysian IT jobs - my interview with a recruitment agent
The Malaysian IT workforce is facing a lot of problems now than it used to. No doubt, there are tons of jobs available, but for low-scale jobs like software development and tech support. The types of jobs available now hasn’t changed much over the last few years, and I doubt it will look any different over the next 5.
The reason is because IT in Malaysia is still fairly new, and hasn’t gained widespread adoption. At the same time, India and China are really big markets now, because of innovation and a vibrant mix of local and foreign players.
Our IT graduates are focussed mainly on development, not research. We’re way behind in terms of software - mainly because there’s too much emphasis on theory, instead of customers. My base observation is that companies typically use sales and project management staff to deal with customers, so a lot of programmers have zero to little idea of how to develop customer-centric software.
Anyway, I digress. If you’re in Malaysia and you’re doing software development, it is unlikely that your salary will hit RM7k for 6 years’ worth of slavery. This is true whether or not you’re a good programmer. (If you’re the exception, you can thank your lucky stars)
If you’re a project manager, 6 years’ worth of slavery might earn you RM6k and above. But then, I assume the work to be firefighting, especially when your software developers are paid peanuts.
Software developers are like the bottom of the food chain. There’s no glamour, no glory - and it’s crowded.
Just so you don’t think I’m crazy, I’m posting my interview with a recruitment agent from an established Malaysian recruitment company (ok, they *used* to advertise on the rear end of taxis/cabs). Her job involves hiring local IT grads for Malaysian companies, and she’s been doing that for the past 3 years.
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LW: What’s the average starting pay for a IT fresh grad now?
Agent: Average start is around RM1700-1800. But you do have candidates who are good, getting upto Rm2-3K for a Fresh Grad role as well… but that’s the highest and rare statistic
LW: rare as in …. 5%?
Agent: yup maybe around there… maybe even less
LW: what about [people with] 2 years experience?
Agent: Average IT person would be [earning] around RM2500? Rm2500-Rm3000 depending.
LW: what are the exceptions? RM4k?
Agent: possibly yes, but usually with 2 years, it shld be around Rm3500. [It] can go up to Rm2.5 - RM3.5k.
LW: okay, [what about] 4 years?
Agent: depends what area they are in. What area of IT. 4 years in the SAME Line without switching (e.g. programming for 4 yrs) would be around RM4K-6K, usually 6K on the high side… that’s for people who’ve moved into project management. So around Rm4-5k. Yeah, around Rm4-5K+ odd
LW: 6 years?
Agent: 6 years - you must ask me in what line. 6 years programming? 6 yrs in system support? A bit too general of a question. 6 years… in all technical? Or 6 years with some managerial experience?
LW: 6 yrs software development
Agent: all software development - about… Rm5-6++ as a programmer…. I’d say around Rm5k++, Rm6K onwards would be for a Project Manager etc.
LW: how much does a software developer earn in India, typically?
Agent: Don’t know about that. Don’t know Indian rates.
LW: If you had children, would you encourage them to do IT? [ed: Sorry, I had to do this. :P ]
Agent: Yes if that’s their passion.. but they’d really have to be different from the rest of the people out there… because there are too many people with IT degrees… the ones are gonna make it are the ones who can stand out in terms of skills, competence, and their ability to think differently, and that includes championing good ideas and having the initiative.
LW: Has the IT job outlook improved over the years, or declined?
Agent: Outlook for employers or employees?
LW: Both.
Agent: hmm, for employers, it’s declined a little… It’s getting harder to find the right people nowadays with a good fit in terms of the technical skills and the soft skills desired. Not enough good people in the market, and attracting them to the organization is also another challenge as employees are getting smarter and more demanding.
LW: So, it’s looking better for employees now, than in the past?
Agent: I think there’s a disparity between what people want out of their careers in IT and what companies here can give them. And as a result of this, people become mercenaries for the higher paying job. The roles of companies for IT in general, aren’t exactly very mind-blowing, even for managerial positions…
So while companies are trying to ’sell’ the organization and the job, trying to attract job seekers… it’s not really working so well because the average job seeker actually wants more than just a support role… or more than just an implementor role
LW: So what do employees really want out of the job these days? If it’s more than support and implementation?
Agent: aside from more money for rising living costs… i’m not really sure, but i think it’s got to do with a whole new level of a job per se… more interesting projects, not the run-of-the-mill support roles, or an outsourcing center…. maybe new projects involving innovation from scratch.. that’s designed/planned for here… something that people feel a sense of belonging.
The roles/projects we have here are implementation… people don’t identify with that.They never created the work…. they have no sense of belonging… and when that happens, you take less pride in what you do.
Hence you move around jobs quicker, if that makes sense.
LW: It makes a lot of sense. Do you forsee this scenario to change over the next few years? Malaysia is right in the middle of cheap-software-dev talent pool.
Agent: No, not in the next few years. Maybe in 10 years?
LW: That’s a long time, considering that software moves so fast.
Agent: Haha, there isn’t much sign of change happening for the big companies. No sign of creation of projects by Malaysians, written by Malaysians… Don’t know if it’s because Malaysians have yet to initiate such efforts in the first place, or is it a result of a lack of opportunities to display their abilities. Chicken or egg situation.
LW: Thanks for your time. If you had one advice for local IT grads out there, what would it be?
Agent: My advice would be to strive to be different - in terms of ideas, work approach….and to ensure they get solid technical experience to back them up.
LW: Sounds good. Thanks again!
[Interview date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 1pm]
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I LOATHE the work culture in M’sia. IT or Engineering. There’s hardly any planning, any risk assessment. It’s just jump headon and do. If something goes wrong, then you find a fix. Otherwise, sweep it under the carpet.
And, salary wise? IT’S PATHETIC! I would think I’m a very different thinker, I’m a very creative engineer but I didn’t even come close to 5k in salary. granted i didn’t have enough of working experience but the amount of money my company made from our work is worth far more than the miserly 5k.
If the industry refuses to reward or at least match the salary and benefits fitting for the amount of work done, sooner or later, you’ll realize all your IT experts would soon go across the causeway and beyond.
I have seen 2-year experience IT guy getting RM5K a month. So, it is possible make a decent living in software development, provided you join the right company with the right skill set.
I think the salary range show here is quite realistic (skip the exception, anything can happen).
Engineer or Programmer is indeed at the bottom of the food chain for most companies, with a few few exception. Company like HP, IBM, Accenture is pretty much business & marketing centric, so you are just a slave there as a techie.
Usually people move up in their career to become System Analyst, Consultant, Project Manager, Manager, etc. Unless you really like being a techie, then you really have to plan carefully. I can see 2 way out, you either work in a company which appreciate techie (like Google, maybe Microft id Redmond, some other rare gems in Malaysia) or you start your own venture. Of course starting a business is not really easy for techie also.
IT is kinda a safe job, decent starting pay up to 5-6 years, but can’t really go far (especially in Malaysia). So you should move on by then or improvise :) But tech support is really a low-end/dead-end job.
We have to accept the fact that business rewards according to company earnings and contributions. How can an IT company that is not able to generate more than RM 1 million revenue a year, feed 10 programmers with 8-10K a month ? Don’t forget that if the basic is 8K , it needs to be multiplied by 13 months + 13 % for EPF and SOCSO. A person making 8K is already costing company RM 120K per year. This is not inclusive of premise rental, electricity(electricity for commercial just hike by another 30%), phone bills, equipment depreciation, software depreciation, amortization etc. Some of the public listed IT companies can’t even generate revenue of RM 5 million a year.
I would therefore say, to increase everyone’s pay, we need to be extremely competitive and innovative in coming out with solutions and products. Innovation pays. Gone were the days of “chinaman company” where the boss sits on the director chair collecting hefty earnings. Most of the IT companies that makes more than RM 5 million today are publicly listed or multi-national companies. These companies are run by professional managers who rarely squeezes employee’s pay.(unless you are extremely unlucky to get a “chinaman manager”,:P) If the company runs well with good solutions, everybody will enjoy pay hike and rewarding pay.
Therefore, I would encourage every techie to be marketing-minded as well, always think about how marketable your solution is. A good solution is always a good one, which is hard to be superseded. If one just do programming for a living, and never think about excelling in their job, it is really hard to make it to anywhere.
geekchic, mun, d_luaz, charles - thanks for your comments.
I’d like to first say that if an IT company is earning RM1 mil a year shouldn’t be hiring 10 programmers.
Companies like 37signals started out with 3+1 (their developer was initially outsourced, but ended up becoming a partner. That developer was the creator of the popular Ruby on Rails platform).
At the same time, the company strives on creating less features, not more. Hence, they don’t need to chase the numbers. They work 4 hours a week, and they sell good products, and their revenue more than doubles every year.
IT companies in Malaysia are hardly tackling the global market. Not that they’re not, but we tend to start from home, do it the cowboy way, then grope our way forwards.
It’s sad that software engineers have to bear the grunt of the work. It doesn’t encourage repeated successes, and it doesn’t reward the hand that feeds.
My question is whether we’re learning from our lessons. Because if we’re not, there’s no point in repeating the cycle.
-Boon